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Post by hwiccee on Oct 23, 2018 20:17:59 GMT
Has anyone got any thoughts on how you could do flag staffs on units like you have in larger scales. As I understand it is not possible to print a staff thin enough and strong enough to be able to attach a flag to as you would in larger scales.
Any ideas on how to do it?
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Post by suntzu on Oct 23, 2018 20:27:37 GMT
You could push a pin in and attach a paper flag , personally I just leave them as they are
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Post by hwiccee on Oct 23, 2018 20:44:06 GMT
A pin is too thick, or at least any pins I have seen.
I am not a fan of the current way of doing flags, particularly before fully regular armies develop. i.e. when you start to get relatively easy to do national flags like a French tricolour. Before this time it is a lot better to have some kind of printed flag but the problem is attaching it to the units.
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Post by Zach on Oct 23, 2018 20:55:08 GMT
I normally print the models without flags then glue a flag in the middle of the base, or give it a little bend over the tops of the infantry. That's how the flags this websites header are done. If you use Tacky Glue/fabric glue the flags should stay on permanently. I've done 90+ pf my flags that way; I rarely use the models with flags included. Some people really like them, however. Also, if you use Danger Cat infantry, there are gaps between the figures that facilitate gluing paper flags as well.
You can 3D print a 1mm flag pole consistently in SLS, and I've experimented with doing this (but not in my current 2mm figures). I've messed around with this idea a few times, because I agree this would seem easier, but it presents its own problems.
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Post by hwiccee on Oct 23, 2018 21:53:53 GMT
Zach do you have a commercial name for 'Tacky Glue/fabric glue', I have no idea what that is. I am in the UK so there is probably another name here.
Any UK people know?
But yes this is what I do and all the glues I have tried have not worked well. I have to keep trying different glues with the same result. It works better when you do as you have, and I have done in other projects, and attach the flag to the bulk of the unit. At 1:1 though I would have 'individual' figures behind the line with the flags as this is how it was done in the period I am thinking of.
Do you know roughly how much SLS is compared to the cheap one, I have forgotten the name of it?
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Post by robh on Oct 23, 2018 22:59:19 GMT
I cut tiny rectangles of thin plastic card and glue them to the top of the centre front rank. Some side to side, some front to back and some at an angle. Variety is good!
Mine are ACW currently so handpainting is not to difficult (don't manage all the stars on the Union flag though). I have been chatting with one of the decal manufacturers who does 6mm flag decals about downsizing them and he reckons it would work well enough.
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Post by Zach on Oct 24, 2018 0:54:56 GMT
Zach do you have a commercial name for 'Tacky Glue/fabric glue', I have no idea what that is. I am in the UK so there is probably another name here. Any UK people know? But yes this is what I do and all the glues I have tried have not worked well. I have to keep trying different glues with the same result. It works better when you do as you have, and I have done in other projects, and attach the flag to the bulk of the unit. At 1:1 though I would have 'individual' figures behind the line with the flags as this is how it was done in the period I am thinking of. Do you know roughly how much SLS is compared to the cheap one, I have forgotten the name of it? Here's a link to the Amazon UK page where they sell it: www.amazon.co.uk/Aleenes-Premium-Glue-Original-Tacky/dp/B00178KLEYIt's literally called "Tacky Glue." It's basically a very viscous white glue. It dries clear and matte, so you can sort of paint over the flag as you glue it on and seal it onto the model, if that makes sense. I've never had a flag fall off using this glue. Back when I based figures I used this stuff to base and flock; it works great for that, too. In the U.S., SLS is quite a bit more expensive than FDM (the cheap one). But it's still better than metal. I just ran a check on Shapeways for Danger Cat 30mm, 3 ranks, 20 strips, in SLS (they call it "versatile plastic" for some reason). They're asking $7.03, which works out to $0.35 per base. The same model in FDM at 200 microns is $0.065 cents. So, SLS is 6 x more than FDM in my very attenuated experiment here. But bear in mind that there are 1800 figures on the 20 strips in a Danger Cat model, and also bear in mind Danger Cat is at 4:3 ground scale, so the numbers are a bit different than for the 1:1 models (Mega Cat, Angry Cat, Master Cat). For the infantry and cavalry FDM machines can give very high quality prints, no problem. FDM does a particularly good job on Danger Cat models. SLS does better on the generals and arty, and any other models where you have individual standing figures. SLS is also better on bicornes (which are only on some officers and arty at this point). If you have the option of using both printer types and wanted to economize, you could order your infantry, cavalry and buildings in FDM, and your arty, generals, skirmishers, train, and the like, in SLS. That way you'd get the best of both worlds. The numbers quoted above are prices for online Hubs; if you are printing at home or know someone who has a printer, the models are extremely cheap to print, as they use little material. |
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Post by hwiccee on Oct 24, 2018 1:01:52 GMT
I cut tiny rectangles of thin plastic card and glue them to the top of the centre front rank. Some side to side, some front to back and some at an angle. Variety is good! Mine are ACW currently so handpainting is not to difficult (don't manage all the stars on the Union flag though). I have been chatting with one of the decal manufacturers who does 6mm flag decals about downsizing them and he reckons it would work well enough. I just resize existing flags from history books I have and then print them. Sorry I can't work out how to post one here to show you. It only takes a few second per flag but as in my era each unit has typically 2 unique flags it can still take a while. I then glue them to the units but they always come off. They might last a game but rarely more than that before I have to re glue them  |
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Post by hwiccee on Oct 24, 2018 11:43:48 GMT
Zach do you have a commercial name for 'Tacky Glue/fabric glue', I have no idea what that is. I am in the UK so there is probably another name here. Any UK people know? But yes this is what I do and all the glues I have tried have not worked well. I have to keep trying different glues with the same result. It works better when you do as you have, and I have done in other projects, and attach the flag to the bulk of the unit. At 1:1 though I would have 'individual' figures behind the line with the flags as this is how it was done in the period I am thinking of. Do you know roughly how much SLS is compared to the cheap one, I have forgotten the name of it? Here's a link to the Amazon UK page where they sell it: www.amazon.co.uk/Aleenes-Premium-Glue-Original-Tacky/dp/B00178KLEYIt's literally called "Tacky Glue." It's basically a very viscous white glue. It dries clear and matte, so you can sort of paint over the flag as you glue it on and seal it onto the model, if that makes sense. I've never had a flag fall off using this glue. Back when I based figures I used this stuff to base and flock; it works great for that, too. In the U.S., SLS is quite a bit more expensive than FDM (the cheap one). But it's still better than metal. I just ran a check on Shapeways for Danger Cat 30mm, 3 ranks, 20 strips, in SLS (they call it "versatile plastic" for some reason). They're asking $7.03, which works out to $0.35 per base. The same model in FDM at 200 microns is $0.065 cents. So, SLS is 6 x more than FDM in my very attenuated experiment here. But bear in mind that there are 1800 figures on the 20 strips in a Danger Cat model, and also bear in mind Danger Cat is at 4:3 ground scale, so the numbers are a bit different than for the 1:1 models (Mega Cat, Angry Cat, Master Cat). For the infantry and cavalry FDM machines can give very high quality prints, no problem. FDM does a particularly good job on Danger Cat models. SLS does better on the generals and arty, and any other models where you have individual standing figures. SLS is also better on bicornes (which are only on some officers and arty at this point). If you have the option of using both printer types and wanted to economize, you could order your infantry, cavalry and buildings in FDM, and your arty, generals, skirmishers, train, and the like, in SLS. That way you'd get the best of both worlds. The numbers quoted above are prices for online Hubs; if you are printing at home or know someone who has a printer, the models are extremely cheap to print, as they use little material. Thanks on the glue. I have ordered some but I have some glue that is similar without much success. I guess it would work if you glue the flag to the main part of the unit (although it has not with metal Irregular figures but they are of course different) but as I say I want to have in effect a single figure (I have used a single skirmisher cut from the group) with a flag attached. I think you would have to do this if you are going to do 1:1 in the post 1650 ish era - i.e. the flags are usually positioned as a small group behind the line rather than in with the line/main body. This is what I did on the 1:1 WSS units I did which you have seen. I suspect something like a very thin pin might be the answer, maybe wire? Thanks on the rest and I think the key will be the 6 times more expensive. FDM is fine for my purposes but if I went for SLS I would have to have more or less all of the armies like that which could get expensive. My idea is to use you files but to print single piece units, rather than blocks that would be combined to make a unit. Umm more thought needed I think. |
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Post by Zach on Oct 24, 2018 20:33:17 GMT
Have you seen the 10mm square Battalion Command base in the Library? It's a relatively new model. Here's a screen shot: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-JLO_e9W3CKc/W9DUCBgGpZI/AAAAAAAACos/-6TuRuexmZ8t8-hIvO38WAJtjA6qztMqQCK4BGAYYCw/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2018-10-24%2Bat%2B1.19.49%2BPM.pngYou could take your flag and glue it between the horse-holder and his horse, or onto one of the officers. A complete battalion command base with proper officer and musician placement would be useful for modeling 1:1, I agree. The problem there is that once I start, I open a grognardish can of worms: "This is good for 1809 French but what about for Suvarov's Russians?" That said, as I look at the battalion base I can see ways to improve it. maybe making it 20mm or 15mm X 10mm, and adding in an eight figure band, and a few additional figs that can be used as flag holders? For proper 1:1 I also need an NCO rank; currently I don't have these because I was trying to shave every penny off SLS printing that I possible could, and I didn't think back when I was designing these initially that FDM would be able to print a 1mm figure. After the success of Danger Cat on newer FDM machines I know that not only cna FDM do it, but they can do it just as well and for a fraction of the cost of SLS. Perhaps a new infantry iteration is called for, which includes an NCO rank and a command section. I could probably do this for one formation (probably 3 rank for now) over the weekend at least. Tempted to do Danger Cat that way, since the soldiers are all individually standing already, it would look really good with an NCO rank. If I did something like that what formation would you be interested in seeing made available first (I have to prioritize this semester, sorry!). |
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Post by hwiccee on Oct 24, 2018 23:27:11 GMT
I had seen the Battalion Command but to be honest I think it is easier to just the skirmisher figures cut from their bases. The colour party was not normally with the battalion command group, it was part of what I think you mean by the NCO rank - at least in my era.
That of course leads to what you rightly say is a problem - the number of possible variants you would need to cover everything. Personally for my purposes I think Rob's SYW are more like I am after. Add in the 'NCO rank' and that would be something like I am after - a one piece battalion. But of course others will want other things.
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