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Post by Zach on Apr 15, 2020 19:35:16 GMT
I've visited early-modern fortresses in a few countries over the years, but it didn't occur to me until today that they lack crenelation (the saw-tooth pattern that medieval castles have along the tops of walls). I was wondering why this feature was done away with. Clearly, artillery was the primary weapon for the siege by the 18th Century; both defensively and offensively. But it seems like crenelation would still be useful when repelling infantry assaults towards the final stages of a siege. Or would it be? Does anyone know how mixed arms worked to defend a Vauban fortress? Now that 2mm is allowing people to 3D print realistic early-modern urban areas and defensive works, can a set of rules to game it be far behind? I feel like with some of the projects being worked on here this is a more important sort of wargaming question that it has been. And for fun, here's a quick video on Vauban's life: Great image in the video is attached. Attachments:
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Post by suntzu on Apr 15, 2020 20:57:14 GMT
Zach , there was and which i have a supplement to the 1st edition of konig krieg called festun krieg which allowed you to game a siege against a vauban fortress , you had to plan your sapper lines as part of the game
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Post by zeitsev on Apr 16, 2020 0:14:42 GMT
In studying the Great Siege of Malta in 1565, I learned that with advent of infantry gunpowder weapons one of the main weapons for defending walls became the pike. Attacking troops armed with matchlocks/muskets would gather outside the walls on their side of the fosse/moat. From there, they'd lay down suppressive fire on any defending troops at the top of the wall. The defenders, not wanting to get shot, would naturally move back from the wall edge. This would allow the assaulting forces to bring up scaling ladders unmolested or climb their way up through rubble to gain the breach. However, while the defenders weren't directly at the wall edge, by using their long pikes they could try to push scaling ladders off. Failing that, they could use the pike to stab anybody who climbed over the wall. Makes a lot of sense! The defenders also used grenades and incendiaries. They could toss them blindly over the wall into areas where the assaulting troops were thought to be congregating. Again, they'd do what they could to minimize risk to themselves. The defenders would also do what they could to quickly fill up any breach in the wall. One thing they'd use was mattresses. They were light and could easily be put in place, yet bulky enough to provide some cover to the defenders. You may have heard of the expression "We're down to the mattresses". That makes sense when you understand the original context: that the main wall has been compromised and it's 'do or die' time at the breach.
Oh, and to answer your question, why no crenelations, when cannon shot is directed at stone walls, the preferred aim point is roughly 1/3 up the wall from the base. You want the top part of the wall to fall over, similar to cutting down a tree from the bottom. The wall rubble also forms the basis for a ramp, especially when sacks of earth and other fill is put atop it.
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Post by korhyl on Apr 17, 2020 15:20:07 GMT
Zach , there was and which i have a supplement to the 1st edition of konig krieg called festun krieg which allowed you to game a siege against a vauban fortress , you had to plan your sapper lines as part of the game Where i can find the main rules set and the expansion for siege scenarios? I'm hoping and loking for a good siege rules since i started my barcelona siege project. |
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Post by suntzu on Apr 17, 2020 15:49:59 GMT
only on ebay , konig kreig is up to version 3 and this suppliment was for version 1 or 2 and i dont think they were included in the current version
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Post by korhyl on Apr 17, 2020 20:22:19 GMT
only on ebay , konig kreig is up to version 3 and this suppliment was for version 1 or 2 and i dont think they were included in the current version Gestung krieg is quite impossible to find. Nothing on e-bay or somewhere else. It is a 1988 rule set!!! Back to 2mm warfare... Is someone able to write some aimple rules based on it or something else? In a while i'll be ready with various vauban fortresses and walls in .stl |
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Post by deraltefritz on Apr 20, 2020 17:10:19 GMT
Have you seen the 6mm vauban fortifications in paper www.paperterrain.com/vauban-forts I have set on order to see if they can be used at 2mm scale, either I am betting that the models are smaller than reality (bastions can be 150 metres across and on each face) so that the 6mm model can double as 2mm OR the flat models can be copied and reduced to a smaller scale. Given that even a small town such as Schweidnitz in Silesia migth measure 1200 m x 900 m and then the fortifications being a further 300 m outside this, paper is a good product to use as it is relatively cheap. They do have a freely to download floor plan (https://www.paperterrain.com/samples) you can have a look for yourself as regards scaling Fire and Stone: Science of Fortress Warfare, 1660-1860 has the best description of how sieges were conducted and includes some basic rules. |
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Post by bayernkini on Sept 24, 2020 13:30:46 GMT
An new ruleset covering the "modern siege warfare",
link
Maybe this pushes now siege games and new (Vauban) models and supplies |
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Post by korhyl on Sept 28, 2020 10:39:51 GMT
An new ruleset covering the "modern siege warfare",
link
Maybe this pushes now siege games and new (Vauban) models and supplies wow this is what i wanted. thanks a lot for the information. i just bought it, 110pages of rules. A little bit complex, but great at first look. black powder supply rules trench rules mining and sappers rules spy rules very accurate, my siege of barcelona 3d project now has a purpouse! |
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