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Post by biker500 on Jan 18, 2020 20:56:12 GMT
Hi all, I have just printed out a few of the codes from the FMS library on my ELEGOO MARS resin printer, and they look really nice! I'll post a photo later as I have to reduce the photo's file size first.
Anyway, I was thinking that since my MARS printer is much better resolution than my older FDM printer I'd like to have figures with a little more detail in them, so I've been playing with OpenSCAD 3D modeller to see what I could come up with, Here are a couple of pics of my work so far:
I still need to add musket and arms, but am reasonably happy with my modelling skills so far :-) I don't want to add too much detail, as after all, the figure is only just over 2mm tall, but I would find them easier to paint with some detail on. Also, I have made the legs articulated (and will make the arms the same) so that I can make different poses for the figures, such as march attack, and kneeling for skirmishers, etc.
I am a bit worried that the resulting figure will be too fragile around the ankles, so I may have to replace the legs with larger cylinders for strength.
My new project is to do the battle of Wagram with Polemos Marshal d'Empire rules, substituting cm for inches, so an infantry or cavalry base is 3cm square, and the whole scenario can be fought on a 4 ft x 4 ft table. I already have a few infantry and cavalry bases made up from an unfinished Volley and Bayonet project I started years ago, using Irregular's 2mm figure blocks. To this end, I will probably create 3cm x 3cm 3D printable bases, featuring several infantry battalions, plus skirmishers at the front edge where appropriate, and maybe some battalion guns for the Austrian bases. I'll probably use the FMS Library designs to populate the bases, once I figure out how to include them in OpenSCAD modelling software.
I intend to do the terrain as 4 2ft x 2ft tiles, using 6mm MDF so I can cut into it for streams and rivers, and add another layer or 2 for hills etc. I'll definitely be printing some of the buildings from the FMS Library for this project! I'll post updates as work progresses!
Biker500
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Post by oldskirmishman on Jan 20, 2020 1:21:28 GMT
Very impressive, sir. I'll be interested in following your progress.
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Post by Zach on Jan 20, 2020 20:29:10 GMT
All the cool people do Wagram, haha.
The figs you’re working on resembled the very earliest test models I did in 2mm. They were printed in SLS at Shapeways, and not a lot of detail came out. The small size and SLS tech made them a weird proposition- they often broke during printing, but if they survived they were quite tough. They also cost next to $0 to print, so hundreds of thousands of infantry figs could be printed for $50 or so on sprues. The artillery in that style never worked in SLS. Now, they did print fine in resin, but Shapeways resin prints were/are very, very expensive. I ended up designing the range initially to work on SLS printers because at the time FDM prints were of pretty poor quality (they came a long way in a few years). Now I recommend FDM for FMS figures. Resin is still rather pricey to order through a hub, and working with a resin printer is more problematic (fumes, exhaust needs). With colorized FDM probably reaching homes in the next year (at a reasonable price) that tech will become increasingly common on hubs. I’d love to use it for buildings and to color bases, for example. Resin printers clearly have an advantage in detail- but for now it’s mostly an advantage only owners of resin printers can really take advantage of.
If I wanted to create a range of figures for my personal use that I wasn’t trying to sell, I’d get a resin printer and do exactly what you are doing. I’m very curious to see how your infantry turn out. This might be a direction I’ll turn to in the future. Maybe another sub-range in the library of ultra-detailed figures designed for resin printers. Might be interesting.
Do you have an estimate for how much it costs in material to print the FMS figs in resin? Just curious if you have a ballpark number. I’m curious if the higher cost on hubs is due to materials or handling.
regards,
Zach
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Post by colinf on Jan 21, 2020 8:53:29 GMT
Wagram - for the artillerist who likes the sound of boom. I've started designing bases that are 3x3cm with multi battalions and with dedicated guns in tinkercad. They look like the following:  I'm still working on doing bases with integrated skirmishers, but as I use Volley and Bayonet, where battalions of skirmishers are usually represented by a 1.5x1.5cm base, I don't often do them on the main base. There's a thread in the 3D printing lab forum with my .stl files on if you want them. |
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Post by biker500 on Jan 21, 2020 17:55:41 GMT
Thanks for the replies! Re my figure design, my aim was to add just enough detail to give guidelines for painting, I think I got a bit carried away! I'm thinking of changing the legs to non tapered cylinders, as they look a bit fragile on my model. I'll still design it with the knee joint, so I can make figures in different poses. Still debating on how fine to make the rifle and bayonet. My MARS printer has a horizontal resolution of 0.047mm (basically the size of each pixel on the LCD screen) and vertical res is 0.01mm, so no problem printing fine detail. The problem comes when cleaning the printed items, as they need rinsing with isopropyl alcohol to remove any uncured resin, and I usually apply that with a brush. That is when any fragile parts can get knocked off. Zack, my slicing software tells my how much resin is used, and the price per print, Angry Cat 30mm x 3 ranks x 10 strips x2 (I can fit 2 copies on the print bed) costs 20p Stirling, or around 35 cents US - less than 2c per base!, and the cavalry (104 horse squadron 4 platoon groups) was 18p - around 30 cents. Although the resin is quite expensive, £34 for a 1 litre bottle (around 52$), you really don't use very much per print, and misprints are not common, so not too bad. You are right about printing in resin being more of a problem, I use my printer in the kitchen with the kitchen extractor fan running, and cleaning the print afterwards is messy and smelly - gloves and a mask are needed while handling the resin and while cleaning the print afterwards. Here are a few pics showing what I have printed so far:
My first print with some Irregular Miniatures stuff in the background - printed at 0.01 vertical res ( since then I've sliced at 0.04, still very high quality)
A walled town, using the beta castle parts and some houses: A view of everything I've printed as of this morning (the black stick in middle front is 5 infantry bases glued to a lolly (popsicle) stick for painting, sprayed with matt black car acrylic).
Finally a view of some printed infantry alongside the 30mm bases from an unfinished V&B project from years back, populated with Irregular Miniatures blocks
Colinf, I really like the look of your 30mm square base, I'll be doing something similar with my model when finished, and adding skirmishers to the front for bases that had skirmish ability under Polemos rules. battalion guns where needed, and some command figures if there is room :-)
I've just bought some 6mm MDF, 4 pieces of 600mm square, for the battlefield, and I'll be modelling it as proper 3d terrain, pictures once that is under way :-)
Cheers Biker500
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Post by colinf on Jan 23, 2020 20:56:07 GMT
Great progress! Here's a base with dedicated guns, skirmishers and line infantry. You can find it in the lab if you want something to help you get started   |
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Post by Zach on Jan 23, 2020 22:57:31 GMT
I replied here the other day but it looks like it didn't post for some reason. Weird.
Anyways, thanks for the info on resin printer prices. That's something I'll need to take into account. I'd either have to do the over-top exhaust, or rig up something in my hobby room. The latter option is probably the better one.
Great looking prints by the way. Do you mind if I share some of those pictures on the 2mm Facebook group? I've been trying to get some side-by-sides of FMS and Irregular for awhile.
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Post by biker500 on Jan 24, 2020 0:21:07 GMT
Hi all, been working on my infantry model again, got it to the stage where I can do a test print to see how fragile or otherwise it is 
A pic of the soldier:
And a pic of the block I'm going to test print
The test block is 3 ranks on a 10mm square base, I'll see if those muskets are too fragile when I print it out tomorrow. I'll post my results, successful or not :-)
Biker500
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Post by biker500 on Jan 24, 2020 0:39:38 GMT
I replied here the other day but it looks like it didn't post for some reason. Weird. Anyways, thanks for the info on resin printer prices. That's something I'll need to take into account. I'd either have to do the over-top exhaust, or rig up something in my hobby room. The latter option is probably the better one. Great looking prints by the way. Do you mind if I share some of those pictures on the 2mm Facebook group? I've been trying to get some side-by-sides of FMS and Irregular for awhile. Hi Zach, Glad my info was of use to you! No probs if you want to share those photos, go ahead.
Yeah, the printer isn't too bad whilst printing, smell is noticeable within a few feet of the printer, but not overpowering, but when extracting the print and cleaning it, the smell of the resin is quite strong. The isopropyl alcohol smells a bit too, LOL. Ideally I should have a full extractor hood on it, I'll probably try to rig something up at some point , a box and a hose that fits over the kitchen extractor fan should do it :-)
I need to experiment more with the best way to use the isopropyl alcohol, see if I can clean the prints without using a brush, maybe a sonic cleaner with the alcohol in it may work, sonic cleaners are fairly cheap nowadays, I may buy one and give it a go.
I also still need to sort a UV light box for curing prints, atm I just stick them on a south facing windowsill for a day, don't know if that works or not.
Cheers Biker500
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Post by biker500 on Jan 25, 2020 2:31:03 GMT
Hi all,
my first print of the test block was a failure although it looked like it had printed the figures, once I rinsed it in IPA, the figures disappeared, and I was left with a plain base. I will play around with settings a bit and have another go over the weekend. One thing I will try is to increase the exposure settings, to make the print more "set", another is to overlap the figures and the base slightly, my first model had the feet of the figures lining up exactly with the top of the base, I'll try to overlap them by say 0.01mm, see if that makes a difference.
Biker500
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Post by korhyl on Feb 4, 2020 15:48:45 GMT
Keep us posted!
I'm very interested in your tests
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Post by biker500 on Feb 18, 2020 23:00:30 GMT
Sorry for the delay in following up, I got sidetracked with printing some 28mm Napoleonics I found on Thingiverse :-)
I made several more attempts at printing my 2mm Infantry model, spacing them closer together or further apart, to see if it made a difference, non of the attempts were successful though, it seems the figures as modelled are too weak around the ankles, so it is back to the drawing board, I think.
I'm probably repeating Zach's early tests here, but I will try a simplified model, but still with a recognisable head and shoulders, so that for me, at least, painting the figures should be easier :-) I'll report back when I have made some progress!
Biker500
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Post by Zach on Feb 18, 2020 23:36:21 GMT
The "Epic" models in the Library have a head and shoulders, if you'd like a model for what's printable with some strength. There are also Actually, the Danger Cats are the thinest pieces that I've been able to get printed consistently. I think those are just over 1mm wide. Danger Cats aren't exactly fit for 1:1 troop/figure ratio units, however - each figure takes up too much frontage. Mega/Angry/Master cats are at the exact frontage per figure, but as you said, they lack features.
If you're interested, I could send you the original infantry model with backpack, rifle, arms, head, etc, that I began with. It actually printed up great with the "ultra detail" material at Shapeways ( I think a kind of resin; Shapeways is always hiding the ball to make 3D printing seem harder than it is). The downside was that a 20mm wide piece cost $5.00 or something to print. So, I moved on to other design options. It would be interesting if you could print it with a regular resin printer. It was very similar to your figures, but it was pretty tough. I still have the model, unpainted, in my Drawer of Failure.
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Post by biker500 on Feb 19, 2020 3:26:05 GMT
The "Epic" models in the Library have a head and shoulders, if you'd like a model for what's printable with some strength. There are also Actually, the Danger Cats are the thinest pieces that I've been able to get printed consistently. I think those are just over 1mm wide. Danger Cats aren't exactly fit for 1:1 troop/figure ratio units, however - each figure takes up too much frontage. Mega/Angry/Master cats are at the exact frontage per figure, but as you said, they lack features. If you're interested, I could send you the original infantry model with backpack, rifle, arms, head, etc, that I began with. It actually printed up great with the "ultra detail" material at Shapeways ( I think a kind of resin; Shapeways is always hiding the ball to make 3D printing seem harder than it is). The downside was that a 20mm wide piece cost $5.00 or something to print. So, I moved on to other design options. It would be interesting if you could print it with a regular resin printer. It was very similar to your figures, but it was pretty tough. I still have the model, unpainted, in my Drawer of Failure. Hi Zach, That would be great if you would, thanks! Save me reinventing the wheel, and will give me guidance on what level of detail is possible. BTW, I have painted half a dozen of, I think it was Angry Cat infantry blocks, took several attempts to get something I was reasonably happy with. I guess the reason I am struggling is that I have painted so many Irregular Miniatures 2mm blocks which have just enough detail to see where the different colours go, as a guide to painting the blocks - and they really are blocks, with each figure totally in contact with his neighbour, side to side and front to rear.
I'll also look again at the Epic range, and for interest the Danger Cats range. I guess I should really look at the different ranges, and try some prints of each, see how they come out and see how easy or otherwise they are for me to paint. I'm still learning what works and what doesn't with regard to designing for this printer.
Regarding printing stuff for my Wagram game, I am using 30 x 30mm bases to represent a brigade or so, with the Irregular Miniatures stuff, I use a 24mm frontage block to represent a battalion in line, and two 12mm wide blocks, placed one behind the other, as a battalion in column of attack, that way I can get up to 3 battalions onto 1 base. I am hoping to achieve the same with printed troops, making directly printable 30mm square bases with 2 or 3 battalions. Kind of like colinf's excellent 30mm V&B models, but with a bit more detail.
I've had my 3D printer on hold for the last week or so, as I have printed lots of stuff, and only just got started painting it all - as well as starting to paint some 28mm Napoleonics I printed from Thingiverse (I needed a change of pace from the 2mm stuff), but will soon be back experimenting and printing :-)
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Post by biker500 on Feb 19, 2020 3:43:18 GMT
I've been thinking more about the terrain for this project, and I'm thinking that rather than cutting, sanding and forming pieces of the MDF, I may try overlaying the MDF boards with foamboard, which will be much easier to work. I'll use the 2ft square MDF boards as the base level, with the first layer of foamboard cut to show the Danube and the streams, and further layers of foamboard for hills. i can use cheap filler to smooth off the edges where needed, then add paint and railway modelling grass and flock to add detail. Hoping to make a start in it this weekend. Now, where did I put that tin of Olive green emulsion paint?
Biker500
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