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Post by zeitsev on Oct 13, 2019 20:24:41 GMT
Hi all -
My name is Doug and I'm a recovering boardgamer.
I only recently learned about the world of 6mm and under miniatures and really enjoy the epic scope that 2mm and 3mms deliver on a battlefield.
Particular periods of interest include Romans, AWI, Napoleonics and ACW, especially at the grand tactical and operational scales.
I'm also interested in rules sets that address unit stress, fatigue and morale. Loved 'Sid Meier's Gettysburg' and played it to death.
Something I noticed is that on many small scale tabletop photos there seem to be very few representations of hills.
What are some ways that you all handle them?
Regards, - Doug
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Post by Zach on Oct 13, 2019 23:52:45 GMT
Well, I personally use maps and draw elevation lines when necessary. I add notation to indicate whether or not the elevated area is a hill, a ridge, or some other sort of feature. Hills and elevation can be tricky. For instance, the British at Waterloo were on a ridge that gave them a significant tactical advantage. But the advantage it gave them was that it shielded them from the eyes of the French gunners. It doesn't take much rise to do that. A few meters over a mile at most. The same ridge wouldn't necessarily fatigue the approaching French as they walked up it - maybe a bit, but it is difficult to quantify an advantage like that. Then again, American Kriegspiel (from 1880-something) says that troops who march up a slight incline before shooting suffer a serious reduction in accuracy, something like 15%-20%. Which conveniently is about -1 on a 1d6. I guess my point is that a significant "hill" might only be about 6' tall. Another example is the main Union line at Gettysburg. The elevated terrain on the Union line was really a very gentle slope - once again, a rise of only a few meters. But it protected them from the war's largest artillery bombardment and hid the strength of the Union line from the Confederates. The Confederate position at Antietam is another example. The elevated terrain there protected them from the Union's artillery advantage. Other than providing your artillery and your officers with an extended LOS, I think that the real advantage of relief is that, on the defense, it shields your positions from the enemies LOS and forces the attacker to guess where your line is weak. This is extremely difficult to model in traditional wargames because people like to plop all of their models down on the table at once. The other issue with physically modeling hills in 2mm and 3mm is that they tend to overwhelm the models. I spent a year or so trying to figure out how to get around that in 3mm before I saw the light and moved on to maps. Some of my struggles are detailed at my old 3mm blog, if you are interested: 1809in3mm.blogspot.com
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Post by oldskirmishman on Oct 15, 2019 17:21:56 GMT
I know what FNG meant when I was in country.........
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Post by zeitsev on Oct 16, 2019 16:24:49 GMT
Right you are, O.S RE: "FNG". I figured it was better to call fire in on myself than have others do it. Zach, thanks much for the helpful info. Your old blog looks very interesting as well. Since I bought some 3mms and 6mms, I plan to study it for tips like the one you wrote on speed painting.
I have yet to fully explore the blog here, so if you've written anything about speed painting the files here, please point me to it as I abhor painting.
As for hills...I'm not quite ready yet to default to a flat earth, so I'm thinking about using layers of painted cardboard. Basically, they'd be similar to how your base maps look, but sitting atop the map. I'm guessing each layer will need to be c. 2-3 cm or 1/4" thick.
For the 3mm & 6mm battlefield, I have a piece of green felt I plan to flock, but dont want the hassle of shaping foam, etc to go under the felt.
If anyone here has ideas on how to do hills on that, please let me know.
Thanks.
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Post by druid8172 on Oct 16, 2019 21:37:54 GMT
As for hills...I'm not quite ready yet to default to a flat earth, so I'm thinking about using layers of painted cardboard. Basically, they'd be similar to how your base maps look, but sitting atop the map. I'm guessing each layer will need to be c. 2-3 cm or 1/4" thick.
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Post by Zach on Oct 17, 2019 17:03:47 GMT
That craft foam could be useful, agreed.
As for speed painting, I don't have much of a primer on it. It's really pretty easy though. I"m at work, but here's a quick breakdown of what I do.
1: Always print in grey plastic. 2: Paint the ground first. 3: After the ground dries, paint the figures in their basic coat color. 4: After that dries, paint a stroke of the secondary color (if any) down the front of the front rank of troops. 5: Add pink dots for faces. 6: Decide if the soldiers hats can be characterized as "bright" or "dark." This is entirely subjective. The French are bright. The Prussians and Russians are dark. The Austrians and British are in-between. Paint the tops of "bright" units with their pompom color or the color of their elite companies. Paint dark colored units light grey (never use black at this scale, or even dark grey. It tends to overwhelm the figures). If the units are inbetween, paint their hats grey, plus a small dot of the high contrast color on the hat, on the side or the front.
Individually this won't look like much, but combined it creates the look of a unit.
When I want to focus on painting formations and mass, then: 1: Paint the base green. 2: Paint figures the main coat color 3: Dry brush or draw one line of secondary color down from of the figures. 4: Dry brush the top of the figures either light grey, a pompom color, or steel/silver (to show bayonets).
I hope this helps! Also, the advice is for the infantry.
Quick take away is, you can really paint out a lot of these in one sitting without too much work. If you want to be as fast as possible use the models with the flags modeled onto them already (although I personally prefer printing out and gluing flags onto the flagless models, it adds a lot more time to the process).
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Post by zeitsev on Oct 18, 2019 20:09:37 GMT
Thanks guys for the suggestions. Game day this Sunday!
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Post by 6mmfan on Oct 21, 2019 2:30:24 GMT
I prefer big hills, but a lot of the small hills you see on a wargames table, comes down to rules and/or ground scale restrictions. Scenarios tend to have more prominent hills but how many different sizes and shapes do you have to make. Hills ontop of a cloth are more noticeable but you can fudge it more with hills underneath a cloth. Not sure if this really answers your questions...
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